Jen DeLeon did it all on the road to a “good a** job.” The Twitch/Warner Music host — who made name for herself coming up as a music journalist at HotNewHipHop and Complex — has been hustling hard her entire career with the can’t stop, won’t stop mentalty that stems from enduring all the stereotypical struggles that come with the rise in the entertainment industry. “So when I first started,” the L.A.-by-way-of-Chicago influencer shared on the Zoom call. “I was all about work, work, work, 24/7, didn’t sleep, always had something on my to-do list that I neglected everything else.”

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However, the relentless grind in the entertainment industry would take a toll on the 32-year-old and cause her to reevaluate work load and embrace designated times for rest and relaxation.

She continued: “…I need to stop being like that.” And you literally have to make the time for your personal life and making that time and finding that balance. So then it was like I went so much into career, but then it was like I put everything into personal.”


Outside an impressive resume, including work with BET, Cheddar and Dash Radio, DeLeon grown a large following, simultaneously, as an content creator and motivational speaker on social media that she’s transitioned into lucrative branding endorsements with various brands like the most recent, Manscape.

The grind has paid off for DeLeon; however, she’s discovered there is still a long road of self-discovery to embark on after finding success. The Source’s Bryson “Boom” Paul hopped on a Zoom call with DeLeon and she talked about landing the job at Twitch/Warner Music, the importance of representation, the proudest moment of her career, survivor’s remorse, success changing family and friends, her musical journey, and what’s next.

Read the full interview below.

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Do you remember your first day in this industry?

Yes, I do, actually. So this started in 2009. So 2009, I worked with a company called GoWhereHipHop, they were a Chicago blog – up-and-coming blog – so they asked me if I was interested in doing interviews – I was. And then there like ok let’s do… It was the uhhh … The Chicago Bears… I don’t know what it was, but my first interview was with Lance Briggs for the Chicago Bears. So we went to their practice facility, and then that was my first interview. And I just remember it being super hot and not knowing what to expect. That was my first interview, like ever. So I didn’t know what I was doing and I was kinda just winging it – but I do remember that, like yes that was so long ago. I do remember that though.

Reflecting back on it now and seeing how far you’ve come. What would you have told yourself that first day?

[Smirks] To be yourself. Be yourself and not overthink it. I think going into it … There were so many things that I was worried about going into the music industry or this business – whatever you want to call it – one of the things I was always afraid of was… You know … You know how it is with – whether it’s like artists, athletes, and when it comes to like women and groupies – and it was just like I didn’t know how to approach it where it was like “How do I ask someone for their contact to do an interview without coming off like a ‘groupie’?” And I was scared of that. I really was so scared of that because I haven’t been in it. But, now, being in it, you can obviously tell based off someone’s energy and how they are. But that was one thing – like just be yourself. I was overthinking it because I didn’t know what to expect, and I realized when I was myself that’s when it just worked out.

Like everyone else in the music industry, what got you started on this journey was, of course, the love of music. Who was Jen before the industry base on her music selection?

It was Maroon 5, Britney Spears, N’Sync, Backstreet Boys, Eminem, Blink-182, Sum 41. It was that. Like Gym Class Heroes, so it’s funny, I never thought I would have gotten into Hip-Hop. When I first started, I wasn’t like, “I’m going to get into hip hop,” but literally, it found me. And so now it’s become that. But I’m definitely Pop and Hip Hop. Yeah, so before 2009 that’s definitely what I was listening to.

Tell us about getting your gig at Twitch?

The gig is actually with Warner Music Group/IMGN Media, for their Twitch channel, Bluelisttv. There’s a variety of great shows on the channel and I host 2 of them, “Build-A-Beat” and “The Drop.” Build-A-Beat is where producers build a beat in 30 minutes or less, with a lot of twists. The genre is chosen at random, they have to use kids instruments, the chat gets to choose high energy or chill vibes and there’s random elements, so it could be a whoopy cushion, a squishing noise, a notification noise. “The Drop” is where I talk about music news and releases and then we always have a special guest and performance.

How did you talk yourself out to taking the easy route?

Oh, it’s not easy at all. Just thinking about how hard I’ve worked and how long this journey has been that it’s like if I go the easy route now, why give up now? When it’s like, I’m on year… Am I almost year 13? Yeah. Started 2009. So it’s like I’m 13 years in that it’s going the easy route. If I was going to go the easy route, I should’ve just went the easy route from the beginning. I went through a lot of shit. I went through a lot of shit and I am determined to get everything that I know I’m supposed to get in this lifetime. So yeah, I’m not going the easy route. It sucks. But yeah, it’s hard. Like I said, we’re all going through stuff and it is easy to just go the easier route, but it’s so rewarding when you do something that you didn’t think you’d be able to do or overcome and then that’s no longer a battle for you anymore. Not something that you’ll ever have to worry about or stress about because you did overcome that. So it’s a rewarding feeling to feel that. It takes a long time to feel that, but when you feel it, it feels great.

Journalist, media correspondent, booking, you’ve done it all.  So what has been the favorite parts of your career?

It’s the interviews. It’s being able to interview those artists. So my favorite time was really when it was the HotNewHipHop and SKI TV days were my favorite interview times. I also was able to do it also with Cheddar, and then that was on TV, but it was different. I love the TV aspect of it, but because Cheddar was known for business and not for hip hop, it was a different, it didn’t hit the same as what it did when it was HotNewHipHop, SKEE TV days. So it’s always been that. I’ve always, literally since I was a kid, always knew that I just wanted to be on TV and have my own show. So yes, everything else is fun and everything’s been great and it’s been rewarding, but it’s being able to just talk to people. That’s my calling. That’s my gift.

Literally, I can talk to anybody. You can make me go out randomly on the street, be like, go talk to that person and I will find a way to have a conversation and be able to get them to open up. And it’s fun and it’s never stressful. Booking’s stressful. Any other thing that I’ve done even outside of that, even helping run companies, the different positions, I’ve felt stressful. I was never stressed out when I had to do interviews. Granted, we did talk about what the pay was at first when I do interviews. So it’s like you had to do other things. In the beginning, it wasn’t what was paying my bills. But now thankfully I can say yes, me talking on camera now pays my bills and I don’t have to do anything outside of that. But it’s always been being able to interview and talk and it’s always going to be that I feel.

Who is an artist that you had a heart to heart with? Even after everything, camera’s cut off, everything, you talking to them and you be like, “Yo, we have a real connection.”

Yeah, there’s a few actually. Big Sean for sure, one of my favorite people ever. Ever. He is the most genuine and humble person. During the pandemic, when he dropped Detroit 2, he literally only did four interviews and it was like the Trevor Noah show, Amazon Music, ESPN and me. When I saw the stories, I’m like, that’s so crazy to see that. But he’s literally one of my favorite people. Last time I saw him, I ran into him at Coachella, no one knows this either. I ran into him at Coachella because I’m also close friends with this DJ, Mo Beatz. And I had posted a thing that I was like, “I’m at Coachella by myself. If anyone’s here and they just want to hang out, let me know.” Mo Beatz text me like, “Yo, we’re here. We’re about to be at the grounds. Let’s meet up.”

So that was my SOS that Mo Beatz replied to. So I loved that. So that first day of Coachella, I ended up, I was with him and Sean and then what I loved was I tagged along with him just because there was literally nobody else. And it was so great. I remember he was even like, “Hey, have you ever met Jhené?” I’m like, “No.” But funny though, because for Postmates, one time I dropped off something for her for Postmates, but I didn’t know it.

So I was like, “No, I haven’t.” And he’s like, “Oh, I got to introduce you.” He’s like, “Jhené, this is one of my really good friends Jen.” And just even in that moment, I can’t just call him and be like, even though it’s like we know each other, it’s not like that, that we’ll be like, “Hey.” But I love that he even introduced me in that light because it’s like, no, we’re not friends where it’s like we keep in touch like that. But it’s throughout the years I was one of his first interviews when he signed to GOOD Music in 2009. So it’s just being able to have that heart to heart and just knowing he was just such a genuine, He’s literally one of my favorite people in the industry and I’m excited for him and Jhené and their baby.

Now social media has made you successful, but I got to ask, has it changed you in any way?

Social media? Yeah, I think even right now, the numbers game is irritating because it’s like, wait, I swear. I’m like, I am not [inaudible 01:06:56] up in any algorithm for anything. My engagement got lower this week that I’m like, “Wait, is it because I’m posting too much?” Where it’s like, whenever I post on social media, it’s never in real time and I wouldn’t use it as much, but I’m realizing how important it is. But then it’s just like, “Damn.”

It’s weird because I’m such an open person, but then I’m also not where it’s just, I would go where I’d only post once or twice a month, but it’s like, “Damn. I did so much in this last month, but I didn’t share any of it.” I think I have this stubbornness of why do I have to share everything? So why does it have to be like I got to post it or it didn’t happen? But it’s like I really am so stubborn that I won’t post shit. But then I’m like, that’s such a bad downfall for me because social media is such a big part of what we do for a living. And also it’s just a big part of life now. It’s just everything. It definitely stresses me out.

Do you feel like social media encouraged or strengthened you at all?

Yeah, no, I mean I love that it’s easy to just be able to express that, but it’s hard to keep up with all the different platforms where I’m like, “Oh, you have to have a different thing.” YouTube, I thought was like my, “Okay, that’s platform I’m really going to build. I want my plaque, I want that 100,000 plaque.” But then I’m like, “Okay, but now everyone’s attention span is 10 seconds. So even if I do these interviews, it’s not getting the views.” I’m like, “Okay, now Instagram reels is the new thing.” But then it’s like, no. Now TikTok is the new thing, but it’s like, oh you got to create something new for TikTok. And so it’s like, it’s overwhelming to try to keep up with every single one. I know there’s scheduling platforms that you can use, but I don’t like scheduling. But it’s hard.

Now with your channel, you’ve given yourself an opportunity to really let people in and really get to know who Jen Deleon is, just through your testimony. Do you still feel like you are reserved and you still aren’t as comfortable with revealing so much information about yourself or so many of your thoughts to the world?

Yeah, so like I said earlier, I’m like, I think I share maybe 90% of it, 90%, 95%, whatever that ends up being. But that other percentage I don’t show now. I definitely will in the future and I’m excited for that too. I’m excited to share that in the future. But the only reason I’m not sharing it now is because I haven’t learned and healed from all the lessons that came from these different experiences. So I want to speak from a place when I do figure that out and I know a lot of people will be able to relate to it.

Has representation become a big factor in your career now?

Yes. So I would say one thing I struggle with is from the Filipino perspective, no one ever believes in Filipino. So it’s like AAPI is such a big thing. I didn’t get included in a lot of that stuff. And I know it’s also partially because I don’t even really look like Filipino. So I’ve been struggling with that, of just being recognized within the Filipino culture and just trying to do more. But it just hasn’t hit yet. But I know that’s something very important, something I do want to get better at because that is my culture and I’m proud to be Filipino.

And as far as for representation as a woman, I think of course, especially in the times that we are in now with women empowerment and everything, that’s also very important. So I’ve just been trying to find different ways and the consistency and being able to do that because I know how important it is and I know I’m lacking in that for sure.

Personally, what have you noticed about success?

What I’ve learned about success is that it’s very up and down and it always feels like it’s not enough. And it’s like you have to figure out what is success to you. Because we can think success is, and I’ll tie it into me, before I was like, success would be making six figures and not having credit card debt. I’m like, “Great.” Dude, I hate fucking credit cards and debt. So I hate owing anyone anything. Then it’s like success would be being able to get viral interviews or success would be getting… There’s different things of success. But what I’ve learned recently is I feel that the true definition of success now is true peace and happiness within yourself.

I tied it so much into different goals and milestones, not realizing I was so focused on what I wanted to achieve career wise, that I didn’t realize how unhappy I was, just even in my personal life and how I wasn’t aware of myself. So now my definition of success has changed where it’s like, I just want to be happy. I want to be genuinely happy. Not the happy of like, Oh, we’re going to show on social media. I want to be like, No, I am so happy that I have no complaints. I am not pretending. I am genuinely every day happy about every aspect of my life. And that’s what success is to me now.

When did you begin to notice various people, either friend or associate, around you begun to change?

I think that once I came to LA and when I started with HotNewHipHop and it was becoming very consistent… Yeah, I don’t know, but I’m also such a ‘walk away from me’, I’m such a homebody that I don’t even have friends like that. I’m so closed off anyway, that I very much kept to myself and just anyone within the industry. So I would notice if some people, especially if favors were asked for like, “Oh, can I have tickets to this show?”

 I’ve had that a lot. I’ve had moments where I had to say, “Hey, we’re actually not friends.” Because they would use that to their advantage of, “Oh, I’m friends with her, and it would be no offense.” But what I remember, I won’t say names or artists, but I remember there was a artist that said, “Oh, so and so is not your friend.” And I’m like, “Yeah, I know that. I don’t consider this person a friend. She’s just someone that I met at an event.” And he’s like, “Oh yeah.” And he was just saying, that’s a bad look because of how she runs. But then I’m like, “Oh, I know. That’s why I don’t associate myself.” I’m like, “The fuck?” So I’ve kept my circle very small just because it’s such a small, the industry is like a high school so everybody knows everything.

You admitted to having a breakdown in the midst of doing so many great things at the time in your career. Is it weird that people believe it impossible to go through things because you’re successful?

You’re human. Everybody’s human. And I think that’s even one thing. Even when you look at these artists, say, the artists that you and I interview on, the famous people we’re around, they’re also still human. They’re going through their shit and it’s like, we got to stop thinking someone is just exempt from going through life. Literally, everyone’s going through something. So even with me, it’s like I have my moments where it’s like, “Damn. Am I doing enough or am I getting older? Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing?” And it’s like, I could be at some crazy event or planning for some interview and it’s still, sometimes I feel messed up because I feel like it’s not enough and I should be more grateful and I shouldn’t be complaining or be bitter about certain things, but I am because my work has nothing to do with my personal life and what’s going on behind the scenes. So I definitely want to clip from some of this interview, even though my vacuum is on.

Becoming as successful as you have through hard work. From family, from friends to love, how has it affected those relationships?

Well, for all of them, family, friends, and love, it’s like it’s being able to share that success with people that you love, it feels great. It feels great to be able to know… My family, they’re fine. They’ve worked all their lives that my dad and it’s all that set. They don’t even need my help at all. But what I love is that… Yeah, it’s like, “Dad, mom, you’ve got more money than me, pay my rent or something.” But what I do love is that I’m able to, if we want to do something that it’s like we can’t. It’s without question we’re able to do stuff like that. So I love being able to share those moments with my family. One of the things I remember with that app when we launched, I remember getting a bonus and my cousin and her husband, they hadn’t moved to Hawaii because he was in the Navy at the time and her kid, it was her first kid, it was going to be his first birthday and they were in Hawaii.

So our family was all in Chicago and then I’m in L.A. and I remember taking everybody from Chicago and we all went to Hawaii because I wanted everyone to be there for his first birthday. So even in that, that felt good to be able to be like, “Hey, let’s all do this together.” When it comes to friends, being able to help my friends who wanted to, whether they were artists and they just wanted to get within the music industry, being able to make those relationships if needed, being able to do that and provide those different opportunities, it’s always about helping. And then even in regards to love, being able to help somebody build what they want to build also because of that, when you are both successful in your own world, that is also rewarding in itself. So I mean, success is great, especially being able to share that. I think that success can suck if you have nobody to share that with and that’s all that you have blessed. So I love being able to share that success with others.

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What is your proudest moment in this industry so far?

One of my proudest moments interview wise was with Kodak Black. So I was his first on camera interview ever. And I remember rushing back from my app job because they asked me and they’re like, “Can you be here at 4 o’clock?” And it was supposed to be the next day and the app company wasn’t Newport Beach. So I rush from Newport Beach to go do this interview. Yeah, my hair is fucked. Everything’s bad. So that interview ended up going viral until this day. I think someone just commented on one of my last posts, we need another Kodak reunion. It was one of his most viral interviews and I’m proud of that because it showed a different side of him. So I take pride in the fact that I can show people a different side of artists that people don’t even think exists. So I literally called it Kodak Black from a different perspective and it was a really great interview. Booking wise, I would say the NBA finals or booking Lil Wayne and he hadn’t done a performance in three or four years. So I’m proud of the NBA finals just because I just grew up on basketball and it was for the Cavs and Warriors. So it was like I booked for the Easter conference finals and then the actual finals.

So I booked 2 Chainz and Ludacris for those ones. So that was just a big moment because it was like, that’s probably the last basketball game I went to. And I would’ve never thought that I would be going to the finals because of work that I had done and it wasn’t an interview. But the only reason I was able to do that was because of my past interviews and my relationships. And then the Lil Wayne one, I’m proud of that one because everyone was so nervous that he wasn’t going to show up. But he did show up and it was a great show. So I’ll say those are my top three. That’s hard.

People think booking an artist is easy. Highly mistaken, right?

Well, first I will say that commission, yeah, you definitely deserve that commission of what you booked up for because it is not one call or one email or one text to lock it in. It’s, you have to get clearance from so many people to even book the artist. So it’s like if you go through the agent, you’re going to deal with higher fees because the agent wants their commission. If you deal with just directly with management, that’s easier. But still you have to, it’s like the rider. How long is the performance going to be? What is the production quality that they have? So there’s little things of that. Some people want to travel just through a jet and not get on an actual plane, but then they have to bring five people with them. There’s so many different aspects to it that it is, honestly, that’s why I don’t even do it a lot.

I can count how many I did because it is a lot of work. When you get the check for it, it’s great, but it is so stressful. Because you were just on your toes the whole time of like, “Shit, is this going to go through or is it not?” And then when you mix in the big names and big companies, when it is the fucking NBA, yeah, it’s stressful, but when it’s done, it’s worth it. But no, it is so hard. I can’t even count how many calls, texts, and emails go back and forth trying to lock in just one performance. Not easy at all.

Since I asked your proudest moment. What was your worst moment in this industry thus far?

I would say, see, that’s crazy. So thankfully I can say I don’t have a worst moment dealing with the business in the industry. You hear a lot of fucked up stories, fucked up situations and it’s just like I can’t point to anything specifically with that. I would say my worst moments was allowing my personal life and a relationship at the time be so emotionally draining and taking me off of my focus in what I wanted to do and caring more about that instead of myself. So that’s where I was trying, I talked about trying to find that balance between work and then personal and then going too much into work and then going too much in personal. And then that’s when I realized I probably shouldn’t have done that and I should find that balance because feeling like I had to play catch up because I was so invested in someone else and something else.

Now, most of the time on social media, we like to see people show what they want to see and even me and you are included, but a lot of people see us grow, but they never see us fall. So when is a time that you can recall that you failed, whether it’s small, big, whatever? You fucked up.

So I, again, did so many different aspects within my career. So 2016, I had two job offers on the table. One was for Complex as their LA anchor. And then the other was for this company called Live Video. It was a startup company, but the person behind it is this freaking multi-billionaire in Orange County that… Yeah, honestly, and it would’ve worked now that I’m thinking about it. So what it was, was it was paid content. So it was just exclusive content where people would have to subscribe. But back in 2016 that was so abnormal. But now it’s normal. We have Twitch, we have Instagram subscriptions, we have YouTube subscriptions.

So I went with the app company instead of Complex. My agreement with the company was that I wouldn’t start doing my interviews again or dropping them until we launched the app. We launched it with Lil Wayne as the face of it. So it was a big deal. I did learn a lot. But then when I started dropping my interviews, my boss at the time was pissed and he said that basically I need to go all in on my dreams and what I want to do are all in on this app. And I said, “All in on my dreams.” So I quit that job and then I was on unemployment. I was Ubering, I was Postmating everything. And I was doing that while I had my own set. It’s like it’s crazy. Yeah, I remember an artist came to my set and then right after I had to go do Postmates. But what was cool was I got so tired of it and was like, “Wait, what if I pitch Postmates on this thing where I deliver Postmates with artists?” They liked the idea. I had reached out to them. We ended up not doing that, but they ended up asking me, “Hey, would you be able to plug in Postmates with other artists and influencers? And we’ll pay you per code.” That ended up paying my bills. But it was just like, that was crazy. So that was 2016 and no one really knows about that because I’ve never talked about it.

At Twitch/Warner, you’re apart of teams. What is Jen like as a teammate?

I think I’m a great teammate. I think that anyone who has or is working with me would say that I never stick to just my roles and responsibilities. I’m always down to just help where it’s needed. I’m such a team player. That’s the only way you can be successful. You got to be willing to help other people out and be able to do the extra work to make it work.

Oh, so you have to learn patience?

Yes. I have to learn a lot of patience, but then I’ve also been very patient and I don’t know if it’s just… I don’t know. Like I said, there’s so many things that I have been asking myself and trying to figure out what’s going to make me happy. And that’s the journey I’m on right now. And it’s a mindfuck, for sure.

Whether in the industry or life, what advice would give when it comes to flexibility and compromise?

Oh man, with compromise, that’s a big thing right now too. With compromise, I did a lot of that, a lot of compromising and I think it’s like one and the same where it’s flexibility and compromising. It’s like if you don’t do too much of it, it’s like you’re not getting the same in return. That’s because then it’s like you’re just compromising your entire existence. That’s what it feels like. If you’re the one that’s compromising and you’re not getting that in return, then that’s going to ultimately destroy you, or maybe not destroy you but it’s going to make you lose yourself if you compromise too much. So don’t compromise too much but be willing to compromise whether that’s opportunity or relationship. But don’t compromise if you’re not comfortable with it. Only compromise if it’s still true to you.

When I think flexibility, I’m thinking of flexibility with people’s schedules within the music industry where it’s like you just got to be flexible with that. For me, if someone wants to do an interview at this day and this time, I’m making it work. I’m not going to be like, “Oh, actually, can you do it on a different day?” I’m not doing that. I’ve never done that where it’s just like I can’t. I’ve always been, when it came to an artist and an interview opportunity, I’ve always been flexible when it came to the artist’s schedule. Always.

Does Jen have an issue with taking her own advice?

Yes. I will give you the best advice in the world, but it’s so hard for me to take my own advice. I will say that I didn’t even let you finish the question. I was just like, yes. It’s hard. And that’s the thing, it’s even when I do give people advice, I don’t judge anybody. Any situation, anything that anyone confides in me in, I don’t judge it at all just because it’s like you can’t. There’s nothing to judge. But it’s like, yeah, I cannot take my own advice sometimes. If I could, I would be so much further in life. But it’s just like, it’s not even just taking your own advice, it’s being your number one fan, your number one motivator, and then it’s just having the discipline to be able to do that.

Does Jen Deleon ever suffer from survivor’s remorse?

Yeah, I’ll tell you this. If there’s anything that you think I don’t go through or don’t experience… Wait, I got dark again. Anything you think I don’t go through or experience, you’re wrong. I do for sure. I think one of the things that I always battled with is just constantly trying to make sure everybody around me is okay, but then also feeling like, “Wait, then I’m not okay because I care too much about everybody else being okay.” And then sometimes even within myself, I’m like, “Oh, is it because I took too much time essentially off? Am I in this mode of like, is it too late to be able to do everything I want it to do?”

And like I said in the beginning, I’m like, am I doing too much at once that it’s like if you put too much energy into too many things and you can’t really reach a hundred percent potential, if that makes sense? So I’m always constantly thinking, what do I have to do to be able to keep doing this? And just the constant of, “Am I doing the right thing? Am I focused on the right thing?” It sucks. But I wish there would be a way for God or whoever to just be this, just focus on this. But then it’s hard to just focus on one thing.

I definitely can say now, it’s like no one would believe it, but I literally don’t have friends. I’m so to myself where it’s like there are people where, you talk about friends from when you first started and it’s like, and they’re not around anymore and it’s in a sense that it’s sad, but then there’s also, when you look back at it, it’s like, were you really my friend or were you my friend because of what came with me in a sense? So I think you talked about that before when early in the interview, when you asked, when did you notice the switch up? And I actually did have something like that where it is sad that it’s like, wait, so is it, the more you go on in life and the more whether you call it success, accomplishments, whatever it is, that it does just get smaller and smaller and lonely and lonely. And I do now, I believe that where I’m like, there’s nobody around anymore. And it’s just like, it’s a very isolating thing. So that definitely sucks.

You’ve done media, radio, business advisory, motivational speaking, and so much more. Do you feel like you’ve found your “dream job” yet?

So my “dream job” was always to have my own show. When I first started, that’s what I’ve always wanted, that’s what I still want, but navigating through the industry, there were so many different aspects. I learned that it was like – I was too narrow-focused on … Ok so it’s like a gift and a curse, it was like okay I want my own show. But then when I learned different things like I learned how to book artists for festivals or just different activations. Like that was crazy where it was – and it was such great money cause it like, wait, this is pretty cool being able to do that – and just then paving into these different things, I realized there were more aspects to me that I didn’t even know existed only because I opened up that door of wanting to have my own show. I still want to have my own talk show. And I still – you know even though everything is like digital and stuff – I still want to be on TV. I know in one of my interviews with Snoop Dogg, he’s like, “Are you going to be the first female late-night talk show host?” I’m like, “I would f**kin’ love that.” Like it would be amazing, but I do still want to have my own talk show. But what I struggle with is – like I said before we even started this interview, it’s like there so many different aspects of me – that like, I feel like I should narrow it down. But like how? Cause it’s all me and I’m just trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t work, but it’s been like this long cycle of like, you know I’m just going to keep doing what I’m doing, and then whatever it is supposed to be, it’ll be.

Is there even retirement for creatives? Because I feel like as long as you have a brain, you’re going to always think of new stuff.

Exactly. Yeah, there’s so much I want to talk about still and do. I honestly feel like I’m just getting started. I feel like this first 13 years was kind of all right, kind of experiments and see what do you actually want to do, learn these different things and now it’s like this next chapter is okay, now really put your all into a very specific things instead of trying everything. I feel like I did try everything, at this point within the industry and I know what makes me happy. I know what stresses me out. So I’m looking forward to that part of my journey.